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General*
Windows Bob - the best!
Mon 21st May '07 5:05PM
4213 Posts
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7th Apr '03
I just read this article http://tinyurl.com/2g2473 and it made me damned angry.
I must say I do hope the people in question are punished to the full extent of the law.

I'm all for the right for adults to make informed decisions about their own diets, but the fact of the matter is that millions of years of evolution have optimised our bodies to be omnivores and as such we can't be healthy without at least some animal products in our system. Note I'm not critisizing vegans per se (and vegetarians not at all) If you want to compramise your own health as a result of your personal ethics then go right ahead, but why should others have to suffer it as well.

I used to know a very sickly looking vegan woman who had a dog and a cat (and a sickly looking child) to whom she fed vegan diets. I tried to explain that as I saw it the animals were carnivores and didn't have the choice to follow her diet or not so it was a pretty cruel thing to do (not least as she punished the cat for catching mice!) but she considered it freeing them from the evil of killing to eat and assured me that if they could understand they would thank her.

I try not to get too ranty on this board so appologies, but this is a bit of a bugbear of mine.
    

LadyBird
But Jesus sez 'Oh hai! Iz just me. lol.'
Mon 21st May '07 8:09PM
69 Posts
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14th May '07
Wow. It had never crossed my mind that vegans wouldn't breastfeed their babies. What is the reasoning behind this? It's not like animals are being abused. It doesn't hurt anybody. I can't understand why a mother would not be prepared to give her baby what it needs to be healthy. Or to survive in this case. It's idealistic and irresponsible.
 

General*
Windows Bob - the best!
Mon 21st May '07 9:02PM
4213 Posts
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7th Apr '03
I wondered if she wasn't able to breastfeed normally for whatever reason (maybe due to lack of protein in her diet) and couldn't bring her self to buy cows milk based forumla. If she could have breast fed and didn't that puts it into a whole new league of stupid.
    

Diziet
optical moose
Mon 21st May '07 9:07PM
2522 Posts
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20th Jul '05
destroy yourself if you want, but leave kids and animals out of it.

kids need protein - every parent knows this and a parent who denies their child this essential dietary intake is a spod of the highest order. cats need virtually nothing but protein as their bodies take almost everything they need from meat. dogs are similar but they're dogs and they'll survive on cardboard if necessary.

fruitarians are equally as misguided....

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-fruitarian.htm

...and don't get me started on windfall fruitarians. the only human with a lifespan close to that of a mayfly.

Gertrude
Landy Dirtlady
Mon 21st May '07 9:51PM
579 Posts
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12th Oct '05
I'm a long-term, fairly strict veggie, but I feed my dog meat (well, turkey kibble) because as far as I can tell it's what she needs: it's what her body was built for, and I'm not convinced that veggie pet food is going to cut it. I give her organic food to assuage my conscience (and because it makes her less windy, and it has less junk in it than a lot of pet food).

I think with a lot of these things you need to think about doing what you can within the bounds of reason, rather than doing absolutely everything possible. I don't to be responsible for killing or mistreating animals, but not eating meat myself and feeding my dog organic food is the best I can do. I think if I was pregnant and the medical consensus was that I should eat fish, I'd probably do it (or at least take supplements), because I'd consider that looking after my baby takes precedence over my choices in what I feed myself.

What really baffles me, though, is that many vegans refuse to drink milk because it isn't meant for humans, it's meant for baby cows. So why on earth would you be unwilling to deprive a calf but think it's right to deprive your own child of the most natural and healthy means of nourishment? I'm sure most vegans are far more sensible than this, the people in the article sound like complete fruitloops.
 

LadyBird
But Jesus sez 'Oh hai! Iz just me. lol.'
Sun 1st Jul '07 12:27PM
69 Posts
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14th May '07
Do vegans eat honey? Or does that count as exploiting the bees?
 

Demian*
Oh Lordy, Plegaleggole
Mon 2nd Jul '07 1:21PM
4678 Posts
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7th Apr '03


LadyBird was bold enough to comment:
Do vegans eat honey? Or does that count as exploiting the bees?



Well according to Wikipedia,

Vegans do not use or consume animal products of any kind.

but

The most popular reasons for becoming a vegan are concerns for animal rights, the environment, or human health, and spiritual or religious concerns

I don't see how any of that applies to honey. It's not like we collect enough to starve them each winter or anything. I bet PETA wouldn't approve, anyway.
  

Mrsham
I lost my toes in a game of blackjack
Mon 2nd Jul '07 2:01PM
505 Posts
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5th Jan '07


Demian was bold enough to comment:


LadyBird was bold enough to comment:
Do vegans eat honey? Or does that count as exploiting the bees?



Well according to Wikipedia,

Vegans do not use or consume animal products of any kind.



From further down the wiki article:

The term "animal product" in a vegan context refers to material derived from animals for human use. Notable animal products include meat, poultry, seafood, eggs, dairy products, honey, fur, leather, wool, and silk.

Here's one vegan's take on it:

http://www.vegetus.org/honey/honey.htm
 

Agentgonzo
There's no pee in catheter!
Mon 2nd Jul '07 2:41PM
811 Posts
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8th Aug '06
Interesting. I had never realised that beekeeping was so exploitative (not that I care that I care that much about it - mmmm, bacon!). I'd just assumed that you smoked them (which I knew was bad) and then stole their honey. I assumed that they wouldn't miss the honey - obviously wrong.

My housemate's parents are beekeepers - not commercial ones though so I don't imagine that the do all that killing of the queen and stuff. Nice honey though.
  

Mrsham
I lost my toes in a game of blackjack
Mon 2nd Jul '07 6:29PM
505 Posts
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Member Since
5th Jan '07


Agentgonzo was bold enough to comment:
(not that I care that I care that much about it - mmmm, bacon!)



Absolutely. I find a bit of well-placed anthropocentrism, or something similar, helps to justify my belief in the sheer majesty of a well-crafted steak and ale pie. That my basic philosophy is somewhat different is a fact I choose to sweep under the carpet ... Dammit, I didn't intend to end the day seriously considering vegetarianism. It's all gone wrong.

By the by, I have a friend who's a true vegan believer who irritates the hell out of me by being thoughtful, extremely well-informed and, worst of all, ridiculously fit and healthy, much more so than myself (he's a long-distance runner amongst other things). Bastard.
 

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